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  #21  
Vecchio 14-10-2005, 23.15.19
Kristian
 
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Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

Martin <martin@privacy.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:31:19 +0200, Kristian <stretch234@get2net.dk>
>wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Martin writes:
>>>
>>>> When they have finished out sourcing all European jobs, Unilever and
>>>> others shouldn't be surprised by a dramatic drop in sales.
>>>
>>>Yes. I'm truly surprised that managers don't seem to see this coming.
>>>Once everyone in Europe is on unemployment, who will buy all the goods
>>>they are having made by slave labor in the Third World?[/color]
>>
>> I´ve seen studies that indicate , that if you are open to
>>globalisation and outsourcing it will eventually benefit the "home"
>>business. It can retain its business and even expand.[/color]
>
>Where has this actually happened? NL is in recession partly as a
>result of all it's industry being outsourced.[/color]

All the Nordic economies are doing very well at the moment - they are
even talking about a coming shortage of labor in Denmark.

Kristian
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  #22  
Vecchio 14-10-2005, 23.26.48
Martin
 
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Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 22:15:19 +0200, Kristian <stretch234@get2net.dk>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Martin <martin@privacy.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 20:31:19 +0200, Kristian <stretch234@get2net.dk>
>>wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Martin writes:
>>>>
>>>>> When they have finished out sourcing all European jobs, Unilever and
>>>>> others shouldn't be surprised by a dramatic drop in sales.
>>>>
>>>>Yes. I'm truly surprised that managers don't seem to see this coming.
>>>>Once everyone in Europe is on unemployment, who will buy all the goods
>>>>they are having made by slave labor in the Third World?
>>>
>>> I´ve seen studies that indicate , that if you are open to
>>>globalisation and outsourcing it will eventually benefit the "home"
>>>business. It can retain its business and even expand.[/color]
>>
>>Where has this actually happened? NL is in recession partly as a
>>result of all it's industry being outsourced.[/color]
>
>All the Nordic economies are doing very well at the moment - they are
>even talking about a coming shortage of labor in Denmark.[/color]

Because all the work has been transferred to the third world?
Can you explain how that works?
--
Martin
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  #23  
Vecchio 14-10-2005, 23.34.31
Jim Ley
 
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Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

[someone, some time ago, sorry don't know who ...][color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>>>>Yes. I'm truly surprised that managers don't seem to see this coming.
>>>>>Once everyone in Europe is on unemployment, who will buy all the goods
>>>>>they are having made by slave labor in the Third World?[/color][/color][/color]

The workers in the 3rd world of course! Of course not everyone in
Europe will be on unemployment, just like they're not now,
Manufacturing and Algriculture have ceased to be the prime employers
for years in many countries (and the figures are complicated by local
outsourcing - if Ford UK outsources its office cleaners to a local
cleaning co. UK manufacturing jobs just declined according to the
stats, in reality there was no change at all...)

However even if we do believe your hypothesy, it's not a bad thing for
the company - and they're required to act in the best interests of
their shareholders, and they don't care who buys the goods just so
someone does, and the now richer 3rd world people can buy them.

Jim.
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  #24  
Vecchio 15-10-2005, 00.32.27
Mxsmanic
 
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Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

Kristian writes:
[color=blue]
> If another country can do the same job for less it will make the
> parent company more competitive, and create even more jobs.[/color]

Being competitive does not create jobs, it eliminates them.

And being competitive doesn't help the bottom line if there aren't
enough customers to go around.

--
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  #25  
Vecchio 15-10-2005, 00.33.14
Mxsmanic
 
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Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

Kristian writes:
[color=blue]
> All the Nordic economies are doing very well at the moment - they are
> even talking about a coming shortage of labor in Denmark.[/color]

What have the Nordic economies outsourced?

--
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  #26  
Vecchio 15-10-2005, 00.36.16
Mxsmanic
 
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Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

Jim Ley writes:
[color=blue]
> The workers in the 3rd world of course![/color]

If both the manufacturer and the consumer are in the Third World,
where does that leave the First World? If companies think that the
Third World is going to retain overpaid corporate upper management in
the First World when every other part of the company as well as the
customer base is elsewhere, they are living in a seriously deluded
state.
[color=blue]
> However even if we do believe your hypothesy, it's not a bad thing for
> the company - and they're required to act in the best interests of
> their shareholders, and they don't care who buys the goods just so
> someone does, and the now richer 3rd world people can buy them.[/color]

See above. The error here is in thinking that First World companies
will still have a reason to exist once all the manufacturing and
consumers shift to the Third World. The pendulum will swing the
opposite way, and CEOs in places like the U.S. who are accustomed to
being paid $45 million after being fired for incompetence are going to
fall on very hard times.

--
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  #27  
Vecchio 15-10-2005, 00.53.40
Jim Ley
 
Messaggi: n/a
Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 23:36:16 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@gmail.com>
wrote:
[color=blue]
>Jim Ley writes:
>[color=green]
>> The workers in the 3rd world of course![/color]
>
>If both the manufacturer and the consumer are in the Third World,
>where does that leave the First World?[/color]

Who cares, that's not relevant to the business doing the outsourcing.
They are purely responsible to their shareholders.

Of course, just like countries such as the USA have done for the last
100 years, the first world employees will be in service industries -
that's not a problem.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> However even if we do believe your hypothesy, it's not a bad thing for
>> the company - and they're required to act in the best interests of
>> their shareholders, and they don't care who buys the goods just so
>> someone does, and the now richer 3rd world people can buy them.[/color]
>
>See above. The error here is in thinking that First World companies
>will still have a reason to exist once all the manufacturing and
>consumers shift to the Third World.[/color]

I have no idea what a "first world company" is, a company is
responsible to, and returns its profits to its owners, it matters not
where they are.
[color=blue]
> The pendulum will swing the
>opposite way, and CEOs in places like the U.S. who are accustomed to
>being paid $45 million after being fired for incompetence are going to
>fall on very hard times.[/color]

Again, even if we accept the flawed conclusion of a first/third world
reversal, rather than a levelling and overall wealth increase, then so
what, CEO's responsibilities are to their companies, if that includes
doing themselves out of a job, then that's what they should do - and
lots of CEO's do that all the time - generally by selling the company,
but there are other ways.

Jim.
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  #28  
Vecchio 15-10-2005, 01.10.10
JohnT
 
Messaggi: n/a
Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs


"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c190l1518htdmotdqv8penoienlmj66m88@4ax.com...
[color=blue]
>CEOs in places like the U.S. who are accustomed to
> being paid $45 million after being fired for incompetence are going to
> fall on very hard times.[/color]

You did.

JohnT


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  #29  
Vecchio 15-10-2005, 01.14.35
Mxsmanic
 
Messaggi: n/a
Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

Jim Ley writes:
[color=blue]
> Of course, just like countries such as the USA have done for the last
> 100 years, the first world employees will be in service industries -
> that's not a problem.[/color]

The service industries are being outsourced.
[color=blue]
> I have no idea what a "first world company" is ...[/color]

One in the U.S., Japan, Europe, etc.
[color=blue]
> ... a company is responsible to, and returns its profits to its
> owners, it matters not where they are.[/color]

That's rather simplistic, and that's the type of reasoning that puts
many companies out of business.

--
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  #30  
Vecchio 15-10-2005, 01.15.57
Mxsmanic
 
Messaggi: n/a
Predefinito Re: Unilever considers outsourcing IT, HR jobs

JohnT writes:
[color=blue]
> You did.[/color]

Yes, but I've never been a CEO, and nobody has fired me and paid me
$45 million.

--
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